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unvented H/w cylinder |
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| message from mike ring on 23 May 2004 |
I asked a short while ago bout changing my H/W cylinder, and based on the
reply, and having a think, I thought the way to make a _real_ difference
is to ditch my phobia about not having 25 galls of water stored for a rainy
day and go unvented.
But on looking round, the tanks all seem to be 530 mm diameter, and my
present one is 400, and sits in a cupboard with pretty restricted access.
It is 600 deep, about 670 wide, but the door is only 500 wide, the boiler
pipes enter on the left at the rear. Height need not be a problem, but some
airing space left would be nice!
Can anyone suggest if htere's a cylinder that will do me, please?
My plumbing is ok, but not necessarily pretty, and these tanks are
expensive, so I'd like to be fairly certain I can finish the job
mike
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| Mike Tomlinson replied to mike ring on 25 May 2004 |
In article <c8tb9b$6dl$2@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>, IMM <abuse-imm@easy.com>
writes
Nothing. It's working beautifully, thank you.
You've been in it for years, under your various nyms. From time to
time, I manually fetch one of your posts just to remind me how stupid
you really are.
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| Andy Hall replied to mike ring on 23 May 2004 |
If you check around the cylinder manufacturers, you should be able to
find one who has or can easily make a 400 or 450mm one complete with
foam insulation
One I believe is
Copperform
01924 275092
I needed to do this a couple of years ago and also have an awkward
access airing cupboad. It's rectangular and pretty large but the door
is at one end on the long side. The cylinder sits at the other end.
I had a cylinder made with all tappings and fittings within a 45
degree arc. This meant that all are easily accessible, whereas the
original cylinder had the cold feed at the back.
If you go for a pressurised cylinder, it has, by law (Building
Regulations) be fitted by a BBA approved and trained plumber.
You can fit a heatbank yourself however. In these, the bulk of the
water in the cylinder is not under pressure but is open vented either
to a small tank in the roof like the CH tank (if indirect) or the CH
tank if direct, or there are models with the header built in. The DHW
is heated by pumping water through a stainless steel plate heat
exchanger and this becomes the only part under mains pressure.
As a result, it is exempt from the above requirement.
(You don't need to see a doctor then.... sorry :-) )
.andy
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| Christian McArdle replied to Andy Hall on 24 May 2004 |
Unvented cylinders require expensive type approval for each size, so the
range of sizes will often be very limited.
Can you confirm that this was an unvented cylinder that was built to order?
In any case, I'd recommend a heat bank for this. Really easy to install,
particularly in airing cupboards where it may be difficult to provide the
pressure relief pipework. They are available in all sorts of sizes as they
don't require expensive type approval.
DPS do a 480mm diameter Pandora as a standard (but non-stock) size and can
probably be persuaded to build anything to order if you ask nicely. They go
up to 180L in that diameter.
Don't be put off by IMM recommending them for this application.
Christian.
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| IMM replied to Christian McArdle on 24 May 2004 |
In fact it is best to listen to the pro, me, rather than the amateurs.
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| Andy Hall replied to IMM on 24 May 2004 |
Why don't you set up your own paid advice web site? You could make a
lot of money doing it and I am sure that there would be a lot of
takers.
.andy
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| IMM replied to Andy Hall on 24 May 2004 |
You should then use it Andy.
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| Andy Hall replied to IMM on 24 May 2004 |
Use what?
.andy
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| IMM replied to IMM on 24 May 2004 |
What happned to your killfile? Please put me on it now!
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| IMM replied to IMM on 25 May 2004 |
Then why are you answering me? Put me in it NOW!
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| Andy Hall replied to Christian McArdle on 24 May 2004 |
Yes. There were various diameters - those were standard - IIRC
from 350mm to 600mm.
The customisation was in adding extra tappings and positioning them.
For example, on mine I had all tappings on the side arranged within a
90 degree arc and some extra ones on the top for shower outlets.
It also has two immersion heaters and a thermostat pocket.
THe cylinder is rated for sealed operation and I may run it in that
way in the future. However, the mains water flow rate is inadequate
at present. Improving it would require digging up and replacing
the drive at an estimated cost of £5k+. At some point I will do
that, but not just to replace a water service pipe
I would have probably gone that route as well had it not been for the
poor mains supply.
As it is, I have plumbed the cylinder in such a way that adding in the
sealed system components would be easy.
I suppose that one could run a heatbank using water from the roof tank
as the supply. However, there didn't seem a lot of point, since any
space saving from being theoretically able to use a small cylinder as
a result of the larger amount of energy stored would be negated by the
heatbank components.
I agree, though that as a replacement for a conventional cylinder,
they make a lot of sense as long as mains flow is adequate.
It's probably about the single recommendation that he has that does
make sense......
.andy
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| IMM replied to Andy Hall on 24 May 2004 |
How would you know?
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| Andy Hall replied to IMM on 24 May 2004 |
A rose among thorns.....
.andy
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| IMM replied to Andy Hall on 24 May 2004 |
You wouldn't know a good one from a bad one.
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| Andy Hall replied to IMM on 24 May 2004 |
I must admit that when most are bad ones, it is difficult.
.andy
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| IMM replied to Andy Hall on 24 May 2004 |
But you don't know they are bad....or good.
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| Andy Hall replied to IMM on 24 May 2004 |
So you admit that there are bad ones...?
.andy
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| IMM replied to Andy Hall on 25 May 2004 |
Not on my part, but you wouldn't know that anyway.
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| Andy Hall replied to IMM on 25 May 2004 |
Perfection is just an illusion, and as I've said to you before, when
you've achieved it, there is only one way to go.
.andy
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| IMM replied to Andy Hall on 25 May 2004 |
You are right Andy, I now can only go down, which is unlikely.
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| Andy Hall replied to IMM on 25 May 2004 |
Nice computers don't do that, of course.....
.andy
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| IMM replied to Andy Hall on 25 May 2004 |
Andy, I am not a computer. I figured you may be a radio.
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| G&M replied to Andy Hall on 23 May 2004 |
This requirement has been dropped by the ODPM quite recentlty. There was a
note to that effect on the home page a couple of months ago but where you'd
find it now I'm not sure. That said, most BCOs don't know how to approve
these systems so you're still stuck.
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| Andy Hall replied to G&M on 23 May 2004 |
Are you sure?
I notice that the Institute of Plumbing Competent Person Scheme has
been revoked.
http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odpm_buildreg/documents/page/odpm_breg_609518.hcsp
However, there is an application in to run one for unvented domestic
HW cylinders by the Association of Plumbing and Heating Contractors
Is it possible that that is why the requirement has been dropped at
least temporarily? - i.e. no trade body...
.andy
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| G&M replied to Andy Hall on 23 May 2004 |
Hmm - might be a good idea. You don't have to use the local authority
building control - private ones are acceptable. If enough of us trained up
to be able authorise a particular area of work we could put the council
jobsworths out of business.
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| IMM replied to mike ring on 23 May 2004 |
mike,
You need to be BBA approved to fit an unvented cylinder. Most require an
annual service. If one goes it is like a bomb exploding. If it does go and
you can't prove an annual service, then the insurance will not pay out.
Look at the Pandora Heat Bank: no overflow, no mains top up tank, high mains
pressure. http://www.heatweb.com Cost about the same, or less, than an
unvented cylinder.
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| Mike Tomlinson replied to mike ring on 24 May 2004 |
In article <c8sl14$dq0$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, IMM <abuse-imm@easy.com>
writes
*yawn*
So professional you can't even fit a pushfit connector without ballsing
it up.
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