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Laying patio - Marshall's Heritage range, how to? |
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| message from Mike Dodd on 15 May 2004 |
Hi
I've been reading various online guides for laying patios, and after
dragging 'er indoors around a couple of builders merchants have decided that
I'd like to try my hand at laying a garden patio - around 25m^2 of
Marshall's "Heritage" flags (cast concrete, 30mm thick, typical
300/450/600mm grid).
Now, The www.pavingexperts.com guys typically recommend bedding patio flags
on a 50mm compacted sand (1:10 mix cement:sand, to improve the stability),
however, also mention bedding on a semi-wet mix (a sand/cement mix where the
water is drawn from the damp sand) for riven stone and thin flags.
Marshall's, however, (who I have to consider an authority on their own
flags) suggest a wet bed - presumably this means the concrete that I've
always seem my own father laying - with the consistancy of cold custard
(sorry).
Can anyone explain the rationale behind the various methods, and why
Marshall's recommend a method that pavingexperts don't deal with (hey, they
were the first website I found with details - digested them all, then found
non were applicable to the flags we've decided upon).
Any helpful suggestions gratefully received (or failing that, any
suggestions how to dig up 3 ton of concrete if i get it wrong, also
gratefully received).
Regards
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| Colin Brook replied to Mike Dodd on 17 May 2004 |
Over on the uk.rec.gardening group, any question like this tends to get
referred to this web-site: http://www.pavingexpert.com/ which I've
certainly found to be most helpful. I think there's a good chance you'll
find authoritative answers there.
Regards, Colin
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| John Forbes replied to Colin Brook on 18 May 2004 |
1) dig out topsoil down to clinker/clay
2) put in level pegs, allowing 4-5" at high point
3) backfill the low spots with some of the topsoil and tamp down
firmly (i used sledgehammer as a rammer)
4) semi-permeable membrane down (cutting holes for level pegs,
obviously)
5) 2" of sharp sand for drainage, spread as level as poss with rake
6) approx 1" of builders sand, spread as level as poss with rake
7) set string lines for edges of the slabs
8) final thin levelling layer using dry mix 1:5 cement/ builders sand
one slab at a time
9) slabs down one at a time, <1" gaps between
10) fill gaps with dry mix tamped in firmly
11) watering can with rose over gaps
12) (could use wet mix instead of 10+11)
13) scrub any wet cement off slabs
14) 6 pints of Fosters
I'm sure sumebody will tell me what's wrong with this, but it *works*
for me
John Forbes
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| Mike Dodd replied to John Forbes on 19 May 2004 |
To all on the group - thanks for your advice. This, coupled with a forum
reply on pavingexperts leads me to think of trying the dry/semi dry mix.
With particular reference to John. 1st - a "Chum", ah, call em "mates" up
north, lad; Hmmm, may need to invest in one of them. Regarding the Fosters,
hmmm, sounds half-hearted (wonders if the builders merchants can deliver a
crate of Guinness).
Many thanks, all.
Mike.
"John Forbes" <john.forbes@makinson-cowell.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ae257e65.0405180834.22d4180a@posting.google.com...
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| John Forbes replied to Mike Dodd on 20 May 2004 |
This was one of those jobs where my chum/mate was the one who knew
what he was doing and I was the labourer. Adding to what I'd said
earlier, three important general points:
1) taking proper time to level each slab is absolutely critical if you
want to do a good job. It's not enough to bung them down and jump up
and down on them a few times; if they rock, or are not level, then
raise up cautiously so as not to disturb the sand underneath too much.
Then it's a bit of a black art shaving off a bit of sand at the high
spots or trowelling it a bit extra at the low spots (as indicated by
the un-compacted sand underneath, if you see what I mean). We took
anything up to 10 minutes per slab doing this but were probably being
over-meticulous.
2) getting rid of the waste you dig out - have your strategy for this
planned before you start!!
3) I initially tried to cut these Marshalls slabs with a small grinder
and a stone cutting disc to score 1cm deep then a brick bolster. This
failed; underneath the thin decorative top layer there's a very sturdy
concrete with a lot of coarse aggregate, which won't crack obligingly
in a straight line. I'd suggest you borrow or hire a big grinder (and
remember your goggles and dust mask).
John
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| Mike Dodd replied to John Forbes on 20 May 2004 |
news:<40ab06a7$0$25329$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com>...
Hmmm, yeah, thought about this - don't like the "black-art" side of things,
but I can afford the time to get it right.
2 ton skip upgraded to 4 ton skip prior to delivery on Saturday. 80% of
garden dug over already - will finish off when skip arrive. Wheelbarrow
greased and ready for action.
Ah, duely noted. Will consider laying out the slabs on paper first, to
minimise on cutting. I've got a good degree of freedom as to placement (i.e.
the borders can be encroached).
Many thanks (and seriously, Fosters?)
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| Tim Nicholson replied to John Forbes on 19 May 2004 |
Number 14 is where it all goes pear shaped for me - can't stand the
stuff! (Unless, of course, you were just using it as a cleaning agent)
Tim
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| Pete C replied to Mike Dodd on 16 May 2004 |
Hi,
Maybe the Marshalls recommendation is for a drive, which would need to
withstand higher loadings.
cheers,
Pete.
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| MBQ replied to Pete C on 17 May 2004 |
I'm going through a similar process myself and I get the impression
that the compacted bed method is appropriate for flags that have a
consistent thickness.
Some flags vary in thickness due to the way they are made and then the
wet bed method is appropriate allowing you to level each flag
individually to compensate for thicker/thinner flags. Otherwise you
end up with an uneven surface.
MBQ
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