Clean enamel bath (UK D-I-Y House Renovation)

Clean enamel bath
message from Graham Wilson on 23 May 2004
We are going to fit a new bathroom suite next year. However, in the meantime, I wanted to try and clean the bottom of our existing enamel bath. I have tried various cleaners, but none make any difference. I suspect that I would need to try a powerful type acid cleaner. Are there any commercial cleaners (perhaps available from a builders merchants) that might do the trick. Thanks, Graham

John Stumbles replied to Graham Wilson on 23 May 2004

Just cleaned the limescale[1] off our old cast iron bath quite effectively
with a wet J cloth dampened with brick cleaner: hydrochloric acid. Rubber
gloves are good to wear when doing this :-)

Be very careful with chrome though: it's amazing how quickly HCl can turn Cr
black

[1] tidemark where bath doesn't drain properly because it's not level:
unfortunately it must have been vimmed there in the past and the enamel is
going through so the bath's in line for a wacking and replacement .. when I
get that Round Tuit :-)

BillV replied to John Stumbles on 24 May 2004

And eat through the enamel on modern baths...
K-rock jel works for me.

Timothy Murphy replied to BillV on 24 May 2004

This reminds me - on my enamel baths the enamel has been "eaten"
where the bath is supported on metal legs underneath,
with the metal under the enamel slightly corroded.
Is there any simple way of treating this?

Assuming this is possible, does one need special enamel
for "touching up" enamel baths?

BigWallop replied to Timothy Murphy on 24 May 2004

Once this problem starts it's difficult to get rid of as it needs specialist
treatment and I've never heard of a DIY solution for it. There are companies
that can resurface the bath with chemical treatments, but as to their long term
effectiveness, I couldn't say.

A web search for the phrase "Bath Resurface" brings up a lot of hits, so this
might help you further.

Timothy Murphy replied to BigWallop on 24 May 2004

Thanks, I'll try that.

I wonder what the cause is - some kind of electrical reaction? -
and if there is something the plumber should or could have done
(20 years ago!) to avoid the problem?

BigWallop replied to Timothy Murphy on 24 May 2004

There isn't really anything that I know of to prevent this from happening, other
than a sacrificial anode fitted to the base of the bath. Boats have them fitted
to slow down the process of corrosion to the metal parts, but if it where a
common thing in baths I'm sure the makers would have fitted them as par for the
course. It used to be that the bolts holding the feet on to the bath where
tinned in lead solder before fitting, but whether this helped enormously or not
I don't really know. Seemingly it must have in certain situations, but it is
one of those wonders that really can't be proven unless tried out. :-))

Mary Fisher replied to BigWallop on 24 May 2004

Our Victorian cast iron bath is on its original cast iron legs with no such
device - but no moisture comes into contact with the outside of the bath or
the legs. There needs to be moisture for an electrolytic action - and
different metals. If the legs are the same metal as the bath it shouldn't
happen.

Mary

Graham Wilson replied to BillV on 24 May 2004

What's that? Where can you get it?

Graham

Andrew Gabriel replied to Graham Wilson on 24 May 2004

Bare in mind that enamel is not as indestructable as it might
at first appear. In particular, a number of the descaling acids
can destroy the polished surface, leaving it rough and far more
suceptable to getting dirty.

Dev Null replied to Andrew Gabriel on 24 May 2004

I'll second that, having, in desperation, tried lavatory descaler on
my old enamel bath. Left quite perceptable grooves in the enamel
which 6 months later are only starting to lose their edge.

However it is now *white" rather than the dirty grey with blue and
yellow streaks below the taps that it was.

I blame washing machines ... when the weeks laundry was done in the
bath I suspect the bath was much cleaner!

DN

Mary Fisher replied to Dev Null on 25 May 2004

You could still wash your clothes in the bath ...

Mary

Mary Fisher replied to Mary Fisher on 25 May 2004

It is. I tend to use washing powder at home, liquid only when camping. The
powder is excellent for grese too. It also cleans paintbrushes - don't know
about rollers :-)

Mary

Owain replied to Mary Fisher on 25 May 2004

"Mary Fisher" wrote
| > I blame washing machines ... when the weeks laundry was done
I use clothes washing liquid for cleaning the bath anyway. It's also quite
good on cooker grease.

Owain

Marcus Fox replied to Owain on 17 May 2004

Is it possible to have a 5' x 2' x 2' aquarium on the upper floor of a two
storey building with no extra floor support? Doing the maths says that it
will exceed by a long way the 1.5kN per sq/m in the building regs, as works
out at about 600kg over 10 sq ft (0.92 sq m) but I have a feeling it's not
that simple.

Marcus

Andy Hall replied to Marcus Fox on 18 May 2004

Marcus

Some other points for you. I can't help you on the floor loading,
but I do have an aquarium of similar size (actually 2m x 60cm x 60cm)
- approx 700 litres. The weight of the glass is not inconsiderable
either.

I have mine in a downstairs room with a concrete floor so loading is
not an issue. I built the support arrangement using three hollow
brick piers with the space inside equivalent to two brick depths -
about 200mm. Each was the full depth of the aquarium and was then
filled with concrete.

A length of wood block kitchen worktop was laid across the top of
these and levelled. A piece of 12mm sheet Styrofoam was cut to
the tank size and placed between it and the wood. This is a *vital*
step as you probably know to avoid the tank cracking.
600 litres of water on the floor goes a very long way.

This has been entirely successful and in place for a number of years.
Water has been exchanged, but the tank never emptied.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Jim Ingram replied to Owain on 24 May 2004

Hi,

I'm thinking of doing some building work. The property was originally
constructed (1973) will an oil fired central heating system which
resided in a 'boiler house' almost in the centre of the property
(terrace house) with a flue ca. 4inch steel pipe enclosed in a 10by
10 inch galvanised steel duct going straight up to the roof. The
whole system is now redundant and the boiler itself removed sometime
in the past. I would like to demolish this enclosure (not a problem
structurally) and remove the flue/duct.

However, there is some foil backed board on the party wall behind
where the boiler was. I would guess that this could well be AIB. I
would also guess that there a possibility that the duct could be
filled with loose asbestos.

Is there any where that I could simply take (South East)/send a
couple for analysis without having to commit to a full survey. From
what I can gather it only a matter of looking samples under a
microscope/polarised light

Malcolm Stewart replied to Jim Ingram on 24 May 2004

I recall that when we were having some asbestos investigation / removal work
done (in Milton Keynes) the lab technician was from a Watford (or maybe south
London) based lab. Try Yellow Pages etc. or the Asbestos Removal Contractors
Association website http://www.arcaweb.org.uk/ARCA_index1024.asp
Make sure that any samples are wrapped in full accordance with the Regulations
otherwise I guess that you won't be able to get them accepted. (Can't remember
the details but double bagging, seals, red labels etc.)

Andrew May replied to Owain on 21 May 2004

I have undertaken some major surgery on a hedge in the front garden on on
what is the boundary of the property have found an old and rusting cast iron
plate informing me that there is a gas siphon 2'6" away. But what exactly is
a gas siphon and is it likely to be 2'6" into the road or into the pavement.
At a guess it dates from around 1948.

A quick Google turns up lots of references to them but most of these are
American devices for removing petrol from cars.

JMC replied to Owain on 12 May 2004

I have an upstairs bedroom with ensuite shower & basin room, to which
I want to add a toilet.

Assuming the water supply is OK, presumably the only problem is
running a 4-inch waste pipe from the new toilet and connecting it to
the same waste pipe system my existing downstairs toilet uses.

The pipe would run beneath the floorboards, parallel to the joists.
There is a space of at least 4 inches between the upstairs floorboards
and the downstairs ceiling (the U-bend is above the floorboards,
right?), but the pipe would have to run at least 5 metres horizontally
from beneath the new toilet before it could connect up to the existing
waste system. There would be no slope.

Would this distance be a problem, do you know?

Thanks for any help.

Jonathan Pearson replied to JMC on 13 May 2004

and I must learn not to post after a bad day at work!! - apologies for the
slightly aggressive post!!
Jon

Grunff replied to JMC on 12 May 2004

No slope == no pipe.

There is always a way to get a sufficient gradient. With our ensuite
shower room, we built the floor so that it's 14" higher than the main
bedroom floor. You need a 1:50 - 1:100 gradient, the steeper the better.

troubleinstore replied to JMC on 12 May 2004

Why didn't someone tell the person who modernisewd my home all those
years ago about pipes under floorboards.
Infact, houses on the street where I live have been upgraded by housing
accociations recently and they have the bathroom in the middle of the
house like mine and the pipes under the floor going to the main stench
pipe some 9 foot away.

jonni_c replied to Owain on 18 May 2004

Well not completely!!....... currently have a career in IT but have decided
to get serious with DIY and dabble in property renovation (added advantage
of having friends in the business).

Been looking around the colleges etc for any training on trowel trades,
carpentry, plumbing etc and discovered these DVDs - anyone know anything
about these guys? I might go for the £45 DVD which includes all the
plastering\rendering videos. I never one to shy away from getting the books
out and learning the basics from scratch but I do beleive that somethings
need to backed up with visual demonstration so to that end......

Thanks
Jonni

Jerry Built replied to Owain on 17 May 2004

Yes, but a lump hammer to kill a wasp even though this was a queen,
& a bit bigger than "normal". How do you crack your nuts, with a
steam-hammer??

Nice substantial looking shed BTW - is it made partly from
recycled pallets?

J.B.

Tim Nicholson replied to Owain on 09 May 2004

What is the difference (in production terms) between Freshly squeezed
orange juice, Fresh Orange juice (such as tropicana), Orange jiuce
made from concentrate, and any other form of juice. I'm only talking
here about the 100% OJs - not the plastic e-number stuffed 'Sunny
Delight' style products.

I spent a few minutes yesterday trying to determine the difference
from the usual calorific/fat/energy/vitamin per 100ml content info on
some of the cartons, but got pretty much nowhere. Is there an *easy*
way to tell from the packaging which type of product I might be
buying? And before you all respond with the 'learn to read' messages,
I'm talking here about the marketing language that may be used to
disguise one product as another....and the relative 'goodness factor'
that might be missing in certain of these brands.

Hope it's not *too* OT for the group....

Tim

Mary Fisher replied to Tim Nicholson on 10 May 2004

I suggest you consult The Food Commission on http://www.foodcomm.org.uk/,
their magazine, The Food Magazine, is an eye opener.

Mary, no interest except as a subscriber.

Murdo MacKenzie replied to Owain on 12 May 2004

1. It's nice to have the flames down low, to provide a focal point in my
living room, but the main burner keeps shutting itself off as soon as the
room is warm enough - leaving a dark fireplace.

2. Forgetting that the fire is actually on and that the main burner is only
off because of the thermostat, I have gone to bed several times forgetting
to turn the gas tap off; only to come into a very warm room the next
morning, since the fire has been turning itself on and off all night.

I asked Focal Point Fires if there is a way to disable the thermostat, but
they said no - but they would say that, wouldn't they.

Any ideas appreciated.

Thanks,

Murdo MacKenzie

Andy replied to Owain on 11 May 2004

hi all,

I've recently bought a 1-bed basement flat (kitchen, living room,
bedroom, small bathroom) which has electric (not storage) heaters -
the bathroom heater is just a fan heater mounted on the wall. This all
makes the air very dry not to mention eating electricity and notbeing
very efficient. The hot water is heated in a big boiler but rarely
gives enough hot water to fill a bath. What I want to do is take the
bath out and replace it with a good shower and hopefully make some
space by taking out the boiler as well (seeing as it isn't much good).

What can I replace this system with? I'd like something more
economical and the ability to control it centrally but I don't know
whether to have the heating separate from the shower.

any advice? what sort of cost am I looking at for any solutions?

thanks
Andy

D.M. Procida replied to Owain on 14 May 2004

I've got a bunch of alkaline cells here, and I'm wondering which of them
are going to be any good at all. What should I use as a cut-off voltage
when I'm deciding? I have a multimeter, which also has a battery tester
(I guess it just puts a bit of a load on them).

From one set I get around 1.4V with the battery tester, 1.45 with the
voltmeter. But while that sounds pretty good, I know that in practice
they were useless. How much do 'rested' alkaline cells recover after
use?

Thanks,

Daniele

Marcel Jansen replied to Owain on 10 May 2004

Hi

My old workshop vac has just about expired and I'm looking
for something with good filtration, quiet and reliable.
Both the Trend T30AF and Fein QA35E seem to fit the bill.
I'm leaning towards getting the Trend because it filters
to HEPA level and the bags aren't as ridiculously expensive
as the Fein's. Does anybody have any comments about either,
will the Trend be as reliable as a Fein?

TIA
Marcel

Lobster replied to Owain on 13 May 2004

Hi
Just tried to return some kit to Screwfix which I've had lying around
for more than their stipulated 30-day period; nothing actually wrong
with it, just not what I wanted basically, and I'd never got round to
organising the return. However, they are adamant that they won't
accept it back past 30 days, so I'm stuffed.

I'm sure I've done this without problems in the past, and can't
remember them adhering to the 30-day rule like this - or am I
imagining it? What's other's experience?

Thanks
David

Stuart replied to Owain on 16 May 2004

Briggs & Stratton petrol engine.

The engine works fine for various lengths of time (up to 30mins) and then
suddenly dies out. when this happens it sucks its own plunger in! (the
plunger being the rubber device used to prime the motor before starting) As
soon as the plunger is released the motor will restart! My original thought
was that the air filter was blocked, however removing the filter has made no
differance.

any ideas?

Bob Eager replied to Owain on 20 May 2004

Are there rules about physical separation of circuits on different
phases? IOW, do (say) outlets on different phases have to be a certain
distance apart, for instance?

If so, can someone please give me a reference? No, it's not for my own
wiring... it's a H&S query and I want to track down a document they can
point to.

If it is in the Regs, which section please????

Bob Eager replied to Bob Eager on 20 May 2004

(snip)

Thanks, Martin. Exactly what I wanted.

In this case it's an IT room where some equipment is one one phase and
some has been bodged in on another... equipment is adjacent.

spicko replied to Owain on 20 May 2004

i would like to clean and re-furbish red and black quarry tiles. can
someone let me know how i go about this. thanks

The Natural Philosopher replied to spicko on 21 May 2004

its fine if you want to pay double for a fancy tin and a brand name.

However teh basic prinipals of cleaning anything are to establish what
the item is made of, and what teh irt is made off, and then find a
sovent or mechnical method to remove the latter wihout removing the former.

Wuarry siltes are silicates, and pretty inert to most liquids. They are
purous tjopugh, and will absorb greaees and oils, and will stick o cemest.

So...conc acid for any cement residue.
conc organic solvent for paints and tars - or even paint stripper.
cpnc casutoc sioda for ingrained grease and waxes.

And mechanicaical scrubbing with rubber gloves on to get teh loose stiff
out the cracks.

Here's a test for you.

Given a piece of expanded polystrene foam covered inplaster how would you

(a) remove the foam leaving just the plaster?

(b) remove the plaster just leaving the foam?

Christian McArdle replied to The Natural Philosopher on 21 May 2004

Yeah. I'd have been happy to buy unbranded brick acid, but could only find
useless "acid free" alternatives.

Christian.

mate replied to Owain on 10 May 2004

We're just about to undertake the most dreaded job yet - removal of
our bathroom lath and plaster ceiling. After reading a fair bit of
stuff by googling, i have learnt that no matter what we do (ie sealing
room completely, damping down, hoovering the top 1st etc) there is
going to be one hell of a mess. There is only 1 window in the room
and the wind never catches that well so through draft not very good
and as you can imagine the dust will hang in the air for days if not
weeks....

My question - has anyone ever used a dust extraction vacuum for this
kind of purpose? Are they any good? Is it worth paying the £40 to hire
one or should we just resign ourselves to the *massive* clear up
operation?

Secondly, any other tips on the ceiling removal? any silly things we
might overlook?

Any responses greatly appreciated.

Simon replied to Owain on 13 May 2004

Anyone know where/how to buy/make some curved vertical blinds for a bay window ?
I want to be clever and make the slats wider than usual for their spacing, so
when closed they will almost form a double layer of fabric. This is to give a
greater insulating property, closer to that of curtains. They could be
asymmetric to allow them to be closer to the window, but that might put them
off balance (would depend on the mechanism).
Thanks,
Simon.

Tim Nicholson replied to Owain on 21 May 2004

I've now had someone design (properly - and for free!) the deck I
mentioned in an earlier thread. They've calculated that it'll support
53psf (I assume this is lbs per square foot) but most other posts in
this group mention kN/m2.

I found this conversion on the net after much searching - 1kN/m2 =
20.885 lb/ft2 - and would just like some confirmation that it's true,
and therefore my deck would seem to meet the usual floor loading
requirements.

Cheers

Tim

Ch. Rajinder Nijjhar Jatt replied to Owain on 16 May 2004

Hi,

Is there a web site that has videos to show how to do household jobs
such as changing radiators and cleaning central heating please?

Rajinder

phil replied to Owain on 23 May 2004

I have a Zanussi DCS14 dishwasher that has started playing up - it
seems to be stuck in "let water in but do nothing else" mode. IE all
it does is dribble in water from the water inlet and nothing else.

I can't even turn it off with the power button on the front, I need to
turn it off at the mains.

It was bought two years ago so is unfortunately out of warranty.

Any ideas please anyone on what might be the cause of this? Dodgy
circuit somewhere I guess?

Also, if I got someone in to fix it I assume it would cost a fair bit?

thanks

jonni_c replied to Owain on 9 May 2004

Looking for recommendations for a new drill!.

I currently have an old B&D cordless with a 7.5V Battery (Pretty lame
right?). This may seem like a daft question but are there more powerful
drills and less powerful drills? e.g. is a mains drill likely to be more
powerful than a battery drill simply because it always has an optimal amount
of power?

I'm considering a mains drill basically because I don't have my workshop
built yet and I'm not able to leave a charger plugged in around the house
all the time - but if there are any decent cordless drills I'll consider
them too. I'm not after pro stuff like Dewalt (bit too expensive) but I
don't fancy any crap either. Use will be general DIY with different
attachments used.

TIA

Jonni

Andy Hall replied to jonni_c on 09 May 2004

My experience with B&Q in situations like this has been similarly
good. Second replacement, refund and compensation with very little or
no prompting. £10-15 on their part to do this takes the sting out of
the wasted time and while not covering the actual cost of the time
lost is a good gesture that encourages me to buy there again.

The other thing that they do is to put some of the more expensive
stuff high up on the racks in the tools area, so it's worth scanning
around there if interested in a particular item.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Tim Nicholson replied to jonni_c on 09 May 2004

Sorry - perhaps I should have said that my local store *isn't* a
warehouse, but they can still get any 'warehouse only' product on a
next day basis - at the same 'warehouse only' price. I should also
probably mention that I've never had cause to test this, so I can't be
certain that it would work if you ever tried it!

Tim

DAN replied to Owain on 15 May 2004

I have to fit double glazed units to my conservatory, just the glass, I have
made the frames. I wonder if anyone would have any idea of the price of the
glass units (presumably per square foot/millimetre). I have to get about 25
units.
TIA
Dan.....

Michael Mcneil replied to Owain on 11 May 2004

Anyone notice burglar alarms going off in the thundery weather recently?

Gel replied to Owain on 14 May 2004

I recall that DIY'ers are verboten from working on mains cabling in
Germany; is that still the case & you need to be a Registered
Electrician??

What is the common diameter of wiring used in their domestic
electrical sockets;
we want to know if UK Optical Smoke alarms with built in Terminal
Blocks,
will be adequate; may be a problem if they use thicker than 2.5mm.

Thanks

BigWallop replied to Gel on 15 May 2004

This site might be of some help:

http://www.jpoc.net/countries/germany/ukelectricalgoods.html

-= debully =- replied to Owain on 17 May 2004

Mark Spence - leading all round plasterer, 15+ years experience.
Has immediate capacity for work in the South / West Midlands area.

http://www.zen16109.zen.co.uk

or email - (watch the spamtrap)
md.spenceREMOVECAPS@lineone.net

Graeme replied to Owain on 19 May 2004

Just fitted a new bath and there is a gap between the bath and the two end
walls of approx 1.5cm. Will Silicone fill this size gap, and to what depth?
Or should I use some other type of filler with a silicone 'top coat'?
When the walls have been tiled, I'll be adding an L shaped seal anyway, but
I thought the extra sealant/filler would add to rigidity/stability.
Thanks.

Andrew Mawson replied to Graeme on 19 May 2004

Draw a line on the wall with a pencil exactly where the top edge is, then
fill the bath with water and draw another line - you'll be amazed how far it
moves. A bath full of water weighs a huge amount !

The bath itself flexes, the floor will go down a bit, and the leg structure
will compress - it all adds up. Best case is a cast iron bath on a concrete
floor. Worst case is an acrylic bath on a chipboard floor !

Andrew Mawson

Michael Mcneil replied to Graeme on 19 May 2004

"Grunff" <grunff@ixxa.com> wrote in message
news:2h0o95F7hpgqU1@uni-berlin.de

Someone write and tell this fool where to get a tape measure.

BigWallop replied to Michael Mcneil on 20 May 2004

If you lose your bubble, do you become level headed or not ?

Graeme replied to Michael Mcneil on 20 May 2004

Sorry, are you saying that this gap is too big to fill with silicone?
Ta.

Michael Mcneil replied to Graeme on 20 May 2004

"Graeme" <graeme_dontreplyhere@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2h35a8F88o69U1@uni-berlin.de

Is this a troll?

We are talking about gaps of 5/8" here are we not?

Michael Mcneil replied to Michael Mcneil on 20 May 2004

"Graeme" <graeme_dontreplyhere@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2h4kasF8vkfoU1@uni-berlin.de

I'm sorry about all that.

If there is a 15mm gap from the bath to the wall you will need to put
something in there. The silicon is a liquid until it sets it will flow
down the wall. It will fill smallish gaps as it is quite viscous and
sets fairly quickly. A strip of 1/2" wooden (or plastic or some other
sort of) beading will do.

Stick it on with silicon if you like.* Then run a stream of silicon
along the now diminished gap.

Make sure the outlet is large enough for the strip you want to lay, by
cutting the nozzle at a suitible diameter and cut it with a slight
angle.

Each time you run a bead, wipe the nozzle clean until you get the hang
of it. When using the gun, remember it will keep coming out after you
have stopped squeezing -so have some newspaper or a rag handy.

Do a dry run or two to get the hang of the angle you want and rest part
of the nozzle on one edge as you go. If you think you might louse it up,
run a strip of tape either side of where you want the stuff to end up
and rip it off after it will leave an excellent edge if you do it
quickly and remove it straight away.

Going too slowly is the surest way to foul up.

Good luck and have fun.

*You'd better not. Use No Nails -or a couple of tacks with the silicon.
one more thing, buy the best mastic gun you can find. The cheapest ones
are really naff and most of them are too small for the longer
cartridges.

nick smith replied to Graeme on 19 May 2004

Have a chat with Dow Corning Technical for a product with high movement capability
(possibly 791 ?) I think it can tolerate 50% or more and there may be better ones. If the
bath moves more than 2 or 3 mm though that would be excessive and attention would need to
be paid to e.g. the floor and mounts.

Nick

Matthew Humphreys replied to Owain on 19 May 2004

Hi there,

I am looking to install a logisty wireless alarm into our house.

I plan to use 3 PIRs, 4 Door Catches and a couple of keyfob remotes.

I am aware that these systems aren't as secure as a wired system. but
with the layout of our house a wirefree solutions would suit us best -
quick and easy to install an no cables to hide around the house.

I have a couple of questions...

a) Is there anyway to interface a Logisity control panel to my
existing home automation system - i.e. When the alarm is fully set,
drop the central heating temperature an set the lights to operate
randomly etc. etc.

Where is the cheapest place to buy the logisty from? I have found a
few sites on the web, but the price can vary by about 30%.

Many thanks for in advance,

Cheers,

Matthew

Smokeyone replied to Owain on 14 May 2004

I wonder if anyone can assist please. I am looking for a particular
brand of woodstain - I used it some years ago and it was quite
expensive but very good stuff. Almost as thick as paint and resists
the outside usual green algee which sometime grows on fences, sheds
etc. It is not the typical high street brand,
ie Sadolin, Ronseal, might be Hicksons but do not think so.

Any ideas

Smokeyone

Bruce Ella replied to Owain on 10 May 2004

I am planning to build a DIY synseal/shield conservatory as supplied
by
U-fit.co.uk. Since I haven't tried any ambitious projects like this
before I would appreciate any advice anyone may have to offer.

Has anyone tried building one of these... what sort of timespan should
I plan on? (most of the work will be on my own, but I'll obviously
need help with the roof.

DOes anyone know where I can find a guide on installing lead flashing.
Is this easy to do. DO I need any special equipement.

The base was already built, and I believe there is a damp-proof
membrane, but after reading about liquid damp proofing in these
groups, I was thinking of putting this on, as an addional measure.

the existing base is concrete, surrounded by a singe layer of brick.
This has some minor irregualrities... I was thinking of using a
thermal insualting underlay, and laying laminate over this: does this
seem reasonable.

thanks

kind regards
Bruce

Richard Savage replied to Owain on 10 May 2004

Can I run power to my cooker hood and gas hob (for ignition) from the
same fused spur (assuming the combined load to be less than the maximum
for the fused spur)?

I'm thinking that the need to isolate the hood from the mains to replace
bulbs, clean the filters or deal with combustion of the actual hood is
not likely to interfere with my use of the hob.

TIA Richard

Dave Plowman replied to Richard Savage on 12 May 2004

Well, given a lighting circuit has a few bulbs that will blow anyway, I
can't see the problem with one more.

It's only a suggestion if it makes the wiring easier, as it might in some
cases. Not enough to start WW3 over.

Ed Rear replied to Owain on 20 May 2004

The existing 40mm plastic waste pipe from my kitchen sink has a slight bend
in it. I am shortly going to fit a new unit and the pipe may not line up. I
think it would only need to be bent a few degrees,. I assume you would have
to heat the pipe, but I don't know what you would use. Can anyone advise
please?

Ian Stirling replied to Ed Rear on 21 May 2004

Hmm, I thought it was all polypropylene, which will laugh at boiling water
with scorn.
(starts to soften around 150C)

Broadback replied to Owain on 24 May 2004

Has anyone had experience of Fair Trades when in dispute with a member?
Are they fair?

I had extensive hard landscaping done, and it is not fully satisfactory.
The company keep saying they will come to sort it, but never quite
make it. There is more to this tale but it would take too long here.

So is it worth paying Fair Trades their fee to mediate, or should I
engage a good lawyer (if such exists. :-) )?
TIA
John

Phil Addison replied to Owain on 25 May 2004

Welcome to UK.D-I-Y, the newsgroup for new and experienced
Do-It-Yourself enthusiasts in the United Kingdom. If you want help, or
just want to find out more about a problem before calling in 'the
professionals' you are welcome to 'pick our brains'.

This newsgroup has a companion website for Frequently Asked Questions
(the FAQ) at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/ that contains a wealth of tips
for the DIY'er. Please check it out before posting here, and if you are
new to DIY or the newsgroup, you might find it already contains the
answer to your question.

The FAQ website gives background information about a diverse range of
DIY topics, and guidance on formulating questions to post here that will
most easily get the answers you need. For example, you should explain
the background to the problem as well as asking your question.

The FAQ includes detailed information on common DIY problems in areas
such as central heating, plumbing, electrical, decorating, security,
plastering, and tools. It also has a reference section pointing to other
useful sites and companies.

The FAQ also makes clear that commercial advertising in this group
is NOT welcome. Unsolicited advertising is considered abuse, and is
likely to be reported as abuse to the advertiser's ISP. Replies to
specific questions which mention products sold by the person replying
are acceptable. There is more information on commercial participation
in the FAQ.

p00kie replied to Owain on 22 May 2004

I'm replacing the skirting on the landing area in my house and there's one
or two holes that need filling before putting the new skirting on.
However one of the holes is quite deep and has an electric cable running
through. I was thinking of filling this hole with patching cement before
plastering over but am concerned about plugging a hole with electric cabling
in it with cement in particular. I have this vision of the plastic on the
cable reacting with the cement .....
My thoughts/questions are .... would it be okay to plug the hole with
patching cement or should I surround the cable in say plaster or something
else (suggestions) first?
Help and advice most definately welcome.

N. Thornton replied to p00kie on 22 May 2004

I generally just use filler as backing for filler. First just stick
enough in to cover the back of the hole, without worrying about it
having any noticeable strength. When thats set it has enough strength
to enable you to fill the hole and smooth it flush: the 2nd lot is
what provides the strength.

Regards, NT

Big Phil replied to Owain on 10 May 2004

I've got a 28kW combi providing my hot water and am about to install a
new shower room in a cupboard above the stairs. I've sorted out
drainage and water supplies via 15mm pipes to the cupboard and am
deciding exactly which shower to fit.

I'm looking at the Grohtherm 3000 thermostatic shower, but the blurb
on the website selling this says "high pressure only". Will a 28kW
combi be classified as "high pressure"? Is there any easy way of
measuring the pressure?

Has anyone done anything similar?

Thanks
Phil

Big Phil replied to Big Phil on 11 May 2004

Thanks for all the advice. The combi is supplied direct from the mains
so it looks like it should all work well. I've got both hot and cold
15mm pipes passing the room to tap into and you'll be pleased to hear
a 40mm drain is present, thank you :-)

I'll start collecting the bits required then and then look behind the
settee for some time.

Thanks again.
Phil

Wheelbarrowbob replied to Owain on 20 May 2004

The OSG seems vague about whether to to install a shower in a bathroom on the
rcd side of a split board. The shower would be in zone 1 but i cant seem to
find clarification of the connection to a consumer unit and are there
variations for supply system TT TNs TNCS .any help much appreciated .

Ed Sirett replied to Wheelbarrowbob on 20 May 2004

It all comes down to maxium disconnection times. (0.2s IIRC). The
disconnection time is function of
1) The supply impedance (whose macximum valve will vary between different
type of installation).
2) The size and lengh of the supply and CP conductors in the shower
supply cable
3) The type of fuse/MCB used to protec tthe circuit.

It is possible to design regular shower circuits without using an RCD but
it required less thought and a little more work and money to install an
RCD or RCBO unit.

Hence the norm is to use an RCD or use the RCD side of the 'panel'.

Wheelbarrowbob replied to Ed Sirett on 20 May 2004

The reason i posted the origional question was because a builder mate of mine
has been working on 3 barn conversions and the devolper did his own electrical
installation and wants it certified., asking questions 2 things strike me as
peculiar, the supply to one buildings consumer unit has been run in SWA 30
metres from the meter, and a 8.5 KW shower kept tripping the rcd so he phoned
triton and they told him to swap the supply to the non rcd side of the board
and its protected by a 32A trip.Need i say any more !

Z replied to Owain on 16 May 2004

What measurements would one need to calculate radiator output HW output
and henceforth boiler output for a domestic premises.

Room volumes, u values?

Rafal replied to Owain on 21 May 2004

Hi all,

In my newly done bathroom I just got a very unpleasant soil pipe whiff.
Unnerved by this I have moved the WC pan to check the waste connections.
What I found was the new wc pan flexi pipe just shoved in to the old
horizontal iron soil pipe with no seal around it!
The plumber /if you can call him that/ was aware of the need to replace
or repair the cracked collar. He did not do it thou and there is
nothing in writing about me asking him to do it.
Are there any regulations which would lay down clearly rules for tight
coupling wc pan to a soil pipe? And where to find them?

Thanks in advance

ALAN MEWS replied to Owain on 11 May 2004

Hi
Can someone tell me roughly what it will cost per Square Metre for a
professional to tile a wall or kitchen please?

Many thanks

Christian McArdle replied to ALAN MEWS on 11 May 2004

You'd be lucky to get a cleaner for 12.50 an hour round here.

Christian.

Matthew Humphreys replied to Owain on 25 May 2004

Hi Guys,

I'm sure someone here may be able to help me.

I am in the process off rewiring a control panel - some of the wiring
has suffered from rodent abuse, and is missing!

I have masted the connections to the DSL6-10 contactor, but the
contactor feeds the overload protector.

The contactor is switching L,N and Earth, whihc are fed into the one
side of the protector.

The connections on the other side of protector have all gone, so I
have no idea what should be there!

If any of this means anything to anyone, I can upload a photo later!

Many thanks

Matthew

Christian McArdle replied to Owain on 10 May 2004

Glidden Trade Acrylic Gloss (I already have some of this)
Dulux Trade Weathershield Exterior Quick Drying Satin
Crown Stronghold MVP Acrylic Exterior Gloss

The weathershield has fungicide, but otherwise appears to be similar to the
Glidden stuff. I'm tempted to buy some and keep the Glidden for interior
use. I can't even find a data sheet for the Crown Stronghold.

Has anyone tried any of these paints externally for any period of time? Can
anyone recommend any other external acrylic paint? It must be acrylic. I'm
not interested in solvent based/microporous/ranch etc. Cost is immaterial.
I'm looking for the best.

Christian.

Sean replied to Owain on 11 May 2004

I'm in the middle of designing the kitchen layout for our new house. I
would like some considered views on what is an acceptable space around
the island where my wife (and I??) will do the cooking. This will have
an impact on the width of the island itself.
I have allowed 1200mm between the cooking side and the worktop & oven
behind which I am happy about. To the side of the island is the sink
and dishwasher. It is this side which I am worried about. I have
2400mm to play with (gap between sink and island + width of island).
My concern is that we will need a decent sized food preparation area
beside the cooker but if I take too much then the dishwasher door
(when opened) will block this passageway to the side of the island.
I've been trying to compromise between these two issues. I've seen
some designs in magazines with a gap of just 850mm between the worktop
and island (with dishwasher in the same place as mine) but it does
look very tight

I've been thinking of
1300mm Island Width (with 800mm 5 Ring Gas hob) plus 1100mm Gap to
Worktop

What do you think of this? Could I make the island wider? Is the food
prep area just too small?

Any opinions/recommendations would be appreciated

Richard replied to Owain on 20 May 2004

Where is the cheapest place for such an item these days, Wickes?

Ian Waddell replied to Owain on 18 May 2004

I've just used an in-line tap to turn off water supply to an outside tap.
It has a compression fitting each end and is operated with a screwdriver.
However, the metal is very soft and the driver no longer grips it and I have
been unable to fully turn it back on.

Does anyone have any suggestions of how to rectify this problem? If it
involves replacing the in-line tap is this easy to do, or should I get a
plumber?

Regards,

Ian

Derek replied to Owain on 10 May 2004

Hi all,

I have hired a 3ton mechanical digger before, but with a new job at the
house I have to dig close and parallel to a wall. Is there a way of
angling the arm and digging in a kind of 45deg approach to the wall, or do
I need a special type of digger.

Yes, I know this is a dumb question.

Kind Regards,

Derek.

RichardS replied to Owain on 22 May 2004

I have a Japanese Kataba saw (the ones in the Axminster catalogue) with a
rip-cut "hassunme" profile. "Just the thing for effortlessly ripping long
boards" they say... well, they would, wouldn't they!

The problem is that I find it exceptionally difficult to use, far from
effortless, in fact so difficult that I assume that there must be something
drastically wrong with my technique. I'm trying to rip some 20mm(ish) thick
european oak, but it seems similarly difficult with pine and other woods
that I have tried.

With a traditional (to us) western pattern saw you'd work from the top,
sawing at an angle, and it cuts on the push stroke. So when ripping the
teeth essentially chisel through the fibres at and angle, and thinking about
it each fibre is supported by the one below it so it's a relatively easy,
clean cut.

However, with a japanese pullsaw it seems to me that working from above
means that the teeth are always digging directly into the end grain, and I
can't square this with an "easy sawing action".

Sawing from underneath (if you see what I mean) is easy, the saw glides
through the wood as I would expect, and I can easily see the cut line on the
surface. However this isn't a comfortable working position, not practical
for long boards and strikes me as not being the technique at all.

Saw from the top, but hold the saw such that the teeth form an oblique angle
with the board surface? Fine, works, but how do you follow the cutting line
(not that you have much chance with a ripsaw if it wanders off the line
anyway)?

Or perhaps it shoudl be held so that the cutting edge is perpendicular to
the board surface?

Anyone care to enlighten me on correct technique?

Terry Wilkes replied to Owain on 20 May 2004

Isn't there something slightly ironic about Fathers 4 Justice using, of
all things, condoms, to throw at the PM in order to raise (must be some
flour pun there) awareness for their campaign? And how likely is it that
they'll see their kids now they've got criminal records?

geoff replied to Terry Wilkes on 22 May 2004

In message <c8lv4n$mgt$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>, G&M <m1111b@yahoo.com>
writes
Yes it is,
the correct term is hanged, drawn ad quartered

e.g. :

Hanging

nl:Ophanging
Hanging is one of the forms of capital punishment which has been used as
a method of execution throughout history. One typical sentence was for
the perpetrator to be 'hanged, drawn and quartered'. Another was for the
person to be 'hanged by the neck until dead'. In times of war, hanging
is often considered a dishonourable method of execution and was for that
reason it was used rather than execution by firing squad for war
criminals as recently as the Nuremberg trials.

As a form of judicial execution, hanging in England is thought to date
from the Saxon period, ca. 400 AD, although it had earlier been used in
the Persian Empire. British hangmen are recorded from Thomas de
Warblynton in the 1360s, with complete records from the 1500s to the
last hangmen, Robert Leslie Stewart and Harry Allen who conducted the
last British executions in 1964.

Early methods of hanging simply involved a slip knot on a rope placed
around the victim's neck, with the loose end thrown or tied to a tree
branch; the criminal was then drawn up and slowly strangled. Early
refinements were to make the culprit climb a ladder or stand in a cart
which was subsequently removed. In the 1800s another method was
developed where a machine drew the prisoner aloft using weights -- a
further development of this machine was where the process was begun by
the prisoner stepping onto a metal plate which triggered the weights so
that the prisoner effectively "executed himself". As the number of
executions increased, the tree was replaced by a purpose-built gallows
which usually comprised of two posts joined by a crossbeam -- virtually
every major town and city in Britain had its own gallows.

Until 1808 the death penalty was inflicted in England for some 200
offences, inclu

David replied to Terry Wilkes on 23 May 2004

In article <c8o11a$mcn$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>, IMM <abuse-imm@easy.com>
writes

(snip tripe from John Burns)

Steenkin Man replied to Terry Wilkes on 20 May 2004

You don't have to get the public to care, you have to get the
politicians to care.

Paris replied to Steenkin Man on 21 May 2004

There hasn't been much violence recently has there?
The last time there was general unrest with a bubbling undercurrent of
violence was probably before the war.

I can't think of any major social change that has occured without
violence.
Be it the right to vote, or otherwise.

Ghandi triumphed over the British, because the British understood that
if they stamped down on the peaceful protests too hard.. There'd be
major trouble....

Government can do whatever it wants whilever it is in control.
As soon as massive violence occurs, they are no longer in control, and
they'll do whatever necessary to rectify that quickly.
If that means using rubber bullets on a small number of protestors,
that's fine.
If that means total capitulation to the single issue demand of an
uncontrolable mob, that's what they'll do.

Maria replied to Steenkin Man on 22 May 2004

LOL

Comfortably Numb replied to Steenkin Man on 21 May 2004

What would you suggest these fathers do then? Apart from become more
motherly ;-) ? If the courts won't listen, or act when mothers ignore court
orders and (as you said in another post) no one but those involved appear to
care what would you suggest they do in order to see their children?

I see that you have experience of a mother digging her heals in and being
obstructive WRT your stepchild. I think you said it had been going on for
five years? Surely you must have exhausted pretty much every legal avenue to
resolve this and yet it appears the situation remains the same - round and
round and round you go. Surely after five years you must be able to
empathise with these fathers and understand why they feel the need for such
acts as climbing bridges, throwing condoms and marching? Or perhaps, despite
being in a similar situation, you empathise more with the mothers?

People who say that action of this type won't work have clearly forgotten
the sufragettes

"THE SUFFRAGETTES..WOMEN'S EPIC FIGHT FOR THE RIGHT TO VOTE

The fight for the right for women to vote was a violent revolution for the
rights of equal citizenship led by Emmiline Pankhurst and her fellow
Suffragettes. The following is a brief account of their fight for equal
rights, and the women who were part of that sometimes bloody and violent
fight.

In Manchester on October 10 1903, Emmiline Pankhurst's patience finally ran
out. Tired of being pleasant to MP's in order to get them to give women the
vote, she called for more militant action. 'Deeds, not words' was to be the
motto of the Women's Social and Political Union. (W.S.P.U.)

Emmiline expected a fight but little did she envisage the violent and often
savage struggle that was to follow on the basis of that motto. Her movement
was confined to independent women only, with no party affiliations. They
were women of principle and pursued their goal with great passion,
determination and fortitude.

They were going to need all these attributes and more before their struggle
was over.

On May 19, 1905, a deputation of ten women went to speak to the Prime
Minister. Amongst those women was Emily Davies LL.D., who was seventy-six
years old. It was Emily who handed the first women's suffrage petition to
the Prime Minister. In return all they received was some advice about 'being
patient'. This was not the result they wanted. They wanted to be taken
seriously."

http://www.cjbooks.demon.co.uk/suffrage.htm

And the struggle for equality by the blacks in America

"It would be fatal for the nation to overlook the urgency of the moment.
This sweltering summer of the Negro's legitimate discontent will not pass
until there is an invigorating autumn of freedom and equality. Nineteen
sixty-three is not an end but a beginning. Those who hope that the Negro
needed to blow off steam and will now be content will have a rude awakening
if the nation returns to business as usual.
There will be neither rest nor tranquility in America until the Negro is
granted his citizenship rights. The whirlwinds of revolt will continue to
shake the foundations of our nation until the bright day of justice
emerges."

(Dr Martin Luther King Jr. 1963)

http://www.toptags.com/aama/voices/speeches/speech1.htm

Philip Lewis replied to Comfortably Numb on 23 May 2004

Steenkin Man replied to Steenkin Man on 21 May 2004

Buy this: http://urlcut.com/maria

Mike Hall replied to Steenkin Man on 21 May 2004

Firstly, your school history teacher should be shot. In the head. At point
blank range. With a Magnum .44. That'll teach her not to ignore recent
history!

Pre-Brixton riots, the police treated black people like crap.
During the Brixton riots, the police suddenly became extremely scared of
angry black men and decided that it would be a good idea not to make them so
angry anymore.
Post-Brixton riots, the police are making a real effort not to be
patronizing, arrogant and bullying to non-Anglo Saxon ethnic groups.

Mike Hall

IMM replied to Terry Wilkes on 20 May 2004

The issue is global, not personal. In 98%of cases the child is given to the
mother after a divorce. I know many mothers who are not fit enough.

Bob Eager replied to IMM on 20 May 2004

I think the problem is that the mother is always deemed 'fit' by
default, and the father isn't. Balanced treatment would help.

Andy Hall replied to Terry Wilkes on 22 May 2004

Good grief....... (as in Peanuts)....

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Neil Hopkins replied to Terry Wilkes on 22 May 2004

Parliament is not a suitable plaice for fish jokes ...

David replied to Terry Wilkes on 22 May 2004

In article <GHqnGtZ79orAFwDs@ntlworld.com>, geoff <raden@ntlworld.com>
writes

Septic is about right, mines a real pain

Mary Fisher replied to Terry Wilkes on 20 May 2004

They haven't got criminal records yet - you're pre-judging the matter. They
don't even go before the magistrates until next Wednesday.

Mary

Tony replied to Mary Fisher on 20 May 2004

Just heard on Radio4 that they have been charged with Threatening Behaviour.

I assumed they would be charged with at least assault of some sort. Perhaps
that doesn't fit unless hands have been laid on someone.

The English cricket team should definitely give them a trial though - from
the pictures I've seen, they did very well to get such a direct shot on
Tone.

T.

Mary Fisher replied to Tony on 20 May 2004

YESSSS! :-)

Mary

harry8611 replied to Tony on 20 May 2004

No, its definitely assault, and criminal damage to boot.

Brian

G&M replied to Tony on 21 May 2004

"Ian Stirling" <root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:UW9rc.6965> >>
I assumed they would be > > >>Until this mob got in power they could have
been charged with treason and

No - New Labour abolished hanging for treason and any attack within the
Palace of Westminster used to be regarded as treason first and anything else
second. I believe it is still illegal to protest within the grounds but it
simply isn't being enforced strongly enough - like removing a few heads.

derek replied to Tony on 20 May 2004

Hmm.

Talking about cricket, I did long car journey yesterday and was
regaled all the while by that sanctimonious bucket of **** Piet Heyn
(Arch digger upper of cricket pitches) pontificating about how
disgusting/disgraceful it was for these two to protest in this way.

If I wanted to know about the morality of disruptive protests I
wouldn't ask Piet Heyn (Nobel prize for Hypocrisy) :-(

Another MP went on and on saying he understood how unjust the
treatment of these disenfranchised fathers had been and he realised
the legal system wasn't fair and how their previous attempts within
the law to get justice had failed. *BUT* now they'd chucked flour
about in the house of commons, whilst he realised their case was just
he would make a point of going out of his way not to help them, now
he'd "Look for someone else to help with his time". Since he's
acknowledged the justice of their case, just exactly *how* does he
expect them to promote their just cause in the future?

Well 'scuse me, but isn't that just the sort of response 40 years ago
that started the recent troubles in Northern Ireland?

There is injustice, try all the legal channels -can't get justice.
Take to protesting -still won't listen. Peaceful protests are
escalated -still won't listen. Protests eventually become violent -the
establishment turns away in denial. Violent protest is escalated
-establishment responds with overwhelming state violence.

Thus begins the 30 years war, 3,000 dead, and in the end the State
*has* to come to the table and *has* to address the original
injustices after all. Oh, and then give amnesties all round.

When will they ever learn...

DG

Energumen replied to derek on 20 May 2004

Not really since the aim of the IRA was and always has been a united Ireland
and any real civil rights issues were redressed scarcely 3 years into their
30 year campaign, so what were the other 27 years about?

Such injustices which were addressed being............? The lack of
religious positive discrimination in the police force?

That's certainly true.

Energumen replied to Energumen on 20 May 2004

The IRA killed more people than everyone else combined (police, army,
loyalists) in all but IIRC two of those thirty years and overall killed
about twice as many people as all the others combined in total. Even those
figures are misleading since much of their activity was property damage
while very little of the other actors done much of that, so they are
responsible for much more than twice as much violence as the others
combined. Yet somehow you wish to portray them as reactive? They were the
primary actors in the troubles, which is of course why the governments
focussed on negotiating with them rather than the loyalist terrorists.
Loyalist terrorism was much more reactive, though certainly of a despicable
nature. Loyalist terrorists at many stages even made tit for tat an
announced policy, especially in the late 80s early 90s.

IMM replied to Tony on 21 May 2004

So they should be hung?

Gary Cavie replied to IMM on 24 May 2004

Half a house brick, club hammer.... ;-)

IMM replied to IMM on 22 May 2004

Maxie, you finished off this sentence like this:
" Until 1808 the death penalty was inflicted in England for some 200
offences, inclu"

Green Dappled Monotremata replied to Terry Wilkes on 20 May 2004

Stalking me again (in article <2d8qa0lpdm8qgd7ioakihl3i1ddv0l3pcj@4ax.com>),
Hi Glenys, fancy meeting you in demon.local!

Reverend Parson Peter Parsnip replied to Green Dappled Monotremata on 20 May 2004

There's a little bit of Glenys in all of us!

cacked this ****in treat out!

who, udders? ha!

Reverend Parson Peter Parsnip replied to Reverend Parson Peter Parsnip on 21 May 2004

I won't. Honest.

Seri replied to Owain on 20 May 2004

I've been looking at the bits and bobs that came with my new boiler and I've
been able to identify nearly all the components bar one.

There is a piece of light grey plastic tube with a female wide screw fitting
at one end and a clean cut off at the other, it's a single piece item.
The item is 10.75"/27.5cm long.
The tube section of the item has an internal diameter of .75"/1.9cm
The wall of the tube is roughly 2mm thick
The screw end has an internal diameter of 1.25"/3.5cm

The only markings I can find on the tube are:
8 718 006 883
Lf.-Nr.062 304

The boiler itself is a Worcester-Bosch Greenstar 40 HE Plus Condensing Combi

I've searched through the manuals and found no mention of the tube, I've
offered the threaded end up to all the connectors on the boiler, I've
searched online for the numbers I've entered above and I have (of course)
searched through this newsgroup trying to find answers.

Can anyone help me identify this part?

Thanks

Seri

N. Thornton replied to Owain on 11 May 2004

Hi

Ive got an old hoover thats probably the most useful hoover I've ever
had, so no I wont be downgrading. But it has a cloth bag, non
removable. Its coated inside with filth, well stuck in place. How do I
get it clean?

Regards, NT

Stuart replied to N. Thornton on 11 May 2004

Non-removeable .Jeez -that must be ancient . A very old one I had years
ago with a cloth bag -it was removeable .
Stuart

Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) replied to Stuart on 12 May 2004

Have you seen the damage that they did to carpets with that metal bar on the
roller? If you come across one again, hold a pencil etc against the bar and
see.

In use on a carpet, it hammers down the pile and slices it off against the
grit stuck in the base of the pile, resulting in threadbare patches. A good
cleaner lifts the pile and sucks the grit out.

Alisdair McDiarmid replied to Owain on 14 May 2004

I'm about to move into a circa 1900 tenement flat which has had the
hall, living room, and main bedroom floorboards exposed. The floor
is in fairly poor condition in places --- there are a few gouges
from furniture moving, and there are scuff marks in places. I want
to repair this as much as possible without getting the floor
completely sanded.

How can I tell what has been used to finish the boards? It's not
very shiny anywhere, so I don't think it's varnish. Might it be teak
oil or danish oil? If so, can I just clean the floor and reapply
more oil on top?

Thanks,
Alisdair

T i m replied to Owain on 13 May 2004

Hi All,

Still planning the power feed from house to workshop.

Yesterday I took the new (but old, GE metal 5 way) RCD CU that I got
off eBay out to try to find some MCB's for it. MK and Wylex ones were
'close' but I think I would prefer the right ones (anyone got a 32, 16
and 6A one in their van to sell?). I was then just going to get a
Clipsal garage RCD CU (like the Screwfix one) but they said they were
out of stock, weren't getting any more and suggested Clipsal were in
the mids of a change of ownership or summat?

That took me to a DP switch (CU to workshop feed isolator) and found a
white plastic (7 quid) 45A cooker switch (with neon) but was
considering what I was going to mount it in. I say this because I'm
not sure why I wouldn't want to run the SWA the extra 3m under the
house floor and up near the CU and into some sort of metal box (better
for the gland etc, rather than buying a junction box and doing the
extra 3m in T&E?). I do have a smallish DP switch and fuse in a metal
box with gland holes (ex Dads garage) that would take the SWA nicely,
but I wouldn't need the fuse if I'm taking the feed from a 32A MCB in
the CU. Could I re-wire the fuse carrier with some heavier (than 32A)
wire or possibly bypass it alltogether?

Lastly, and assuming I want to do some Stick / MIG welding (13A worst
case) at the end of say the 15m length of SWA, what would the 'ideal'
size for the SWA to minimise too much voltage drop (without going mad
<g>) please (6mm?)?

All the best and thanks for your time ..

T i m

Glenn replied to Owain on 17 May 2004

Hi all,

We are giving our kitchen a fairly extensive face lift. Most of the kitchen
is a '70's extension to the original 1915 scullery. The current floor has
very '70's ceramic tiles fitted when the extension was built (by the
previous owner), so most of the tiles are stuck down onto concrete (the
other tiles are stuck onto the original quarry tiles - but in terms of area,
that's not much). So my question is, is it OK to stick new tiles (modern
quarry tile style) onto the existing ceramic tiles. (I can cope with any
slight height difference). If yes, it will save me many months trying to
hack off the existing tiles and making smooth.

Many thanks,

Glenn

keith dulwich replied to Owain on 22 May 2004

Please can you let me know if I'm on the right lines here?

8 year old house, want to get power to shed. Consumer unit has 10 CB ways,
3 of which are RCB protected

marked as "protected by RCB" : bell transformer 6 , ring main 32 , shower
32
"not protected": cooker 32 , fixed appl 32 , down light 6, kitchen light 6,
up light 6, smoke alarm 6,,family shower 40 (we have one in bathroom and one
in ensuite)
The RCB is marked 80A and 0.03A, and the main switch is 100A.

I'd use the "bell" position to get a separate feed to the shed (and power
the bell off batteries instead).
So that 'd be wired as : 2.5mm2 within the garage to a 4way joint box,
(square metal back box, probably, ) joining to armoured cable in the garden,
and terminated in a suitable socket in the shed - presumably also a metal
back box to allow armoured cable termination.
Plus a higher rated MCB in the fuse board bell, now marked as "shed"!

So questions are:
Is this ok - using the consumer unit RCB or do I have to use a separate one
instead or in addition? & if so where does it get mounted.
Would it be better to use the "kitchen light" way instead with a separate
RCB?
What size CB for a single 13A Socket.
Is this better than the alternative of taking a spur off one of the socket
outlets nearer the shed?

Anything else I've got wrong? I did look at the FAQ!

Thanks

Philip replied to Owain on 20 May 2004

I need to drill 6 holes into my ceiling. We are having those recessed
light things.

I have never used a hole saw before so just wanted to get my head
around the terminology.

Looking a Screwfix the saws (cylidrical things with teeth on one end)
come in various diameters. But they do not include an Arbor.

Just what is an Arbor?

Do I need one?

I have a 2 speed electric drill, will this be suitable for this job?

The ceilings are made of 5mm hard sheets, not plasterboard or
traditional lath and plater. I am sure the savvy ones amoungst you
will guess what they are made of. But I am not after a discussion
into the rights and wrong of drilling this particular substance.

Thanks for all / any opinions.

Edrich replied to Owain on 16 May 2004

I have a microbore heating system with the flow and return entering the rads
through a single fitting. I may have to remove some of the rads in the near
future but have never taken this valve apart before. Any advice or tips on
how to do it would be appreciated.

Andrew Welham replied to Owain on 16 May 2004

Dear all

Starting to get really confused
I was under the impression that now or I the near future both

Thermostatic radiator valves
And
Condensing boilers

Would be a prerequisite for a new installation.

Reading some details in FAQ the two systems don’t seem to be entirely
compatible.
The reason being that thermostatic radiator valves mean the water
temperature returning the boiler is higher than the optimum?

Andrew

Grunff replied to Owain on 18 May 2004

Push the neatly cut pipe in, the o-ring comes out of its groove. Try
again, same happens. Try a different identical fitting, with a fresh
piece of pipe, same happens again. Only way to get the pipe in while
leaving the o-ring in place is to lubricate the pipe, and use a gentle
circling motion (rocking the pipe in a circular fashion) until it goes in.

Dying to know which fitting?

Screwfix 88980. They are unbraded ss braided hose connectors
(15x15x300mm). Oddly enough, it's only the non-valve-end which is a
problem. The other end is fine. Also, that end (the problem end) has two
o-rings next to each other.

Lurch replied to Grunff on 19 May 2004

They're the ones that don't have a clue!

Lurch replied to Grunff on 19 May 2004

I'm all covered on that one as my Sister is in the showroom rather
than the TC mainly. I just get her to come and type her discount code
in the machine and that's it. She does know about bathrooms and fires
though, apparrently!

IMM replied to Grunff on 19 May 2004

Mr Pole,

Bean, that is fabulous. You can get shoddy fittings even cheaper.

dave @ stejonda replied to Owain on 18 May 2004

I've long wondered this but have never had a knowledgeable bunch of
people sitting there with idle time just waiting to jump up and offer me
an explanation... ;-)

What is that vibrating sensation you get when you lightly touch the
metal on a mains appliance?

What causes it? Is it a sign of inadequate earthing?

Ian Stirling replied to dave @ stejonda on 18 May 2004

In general, no.
Unless it happens to be fatal.
It should be at least investigated.
Do you own a multimeter, and what is the appliance?

dave @ stejonda replied to dave @ stejonda on 23 May 2004

Except that as Richard S wrote, I have experienced this in numerous
homes (and also including a HoR where I guess the wiring was checked
annually by a pro).

Lurch replied to dave @ stejonda on 18 May 2004

Yes, I would get that looked at. There's the dodgy earthing,
inadequate circuit protection and the source of the leakage to find!

dave @ stejonda replied to dave @ stejonda on 18 May 2004

eeek - a job starting tomorrow - you're really suggesting that an RCD
(or whatever it is) in the CU should've been tripping then...

Colin Wilson replied to Owain on 22 May 2004

I have a gas pipe that runs from the meter under the stairs -> across the
kitchen, before heading up to the first floor where the boiler is sited
above the opposite wall (it was only fitted recently).

From this pipe at the point at which it enters the kitchen, there is a T
which supplies the gas cooker and then on to a gas fire - these have been
in since the house was built in the 30`s.

I think the pipework is 22mm or larger across the kitchen, but i`m not
sure what the feed to the cooker / fire is (I think its smaller but its
buried in a concrete floor).

When the CH fires up, there is an audible difference in the noise of the
burner on the cooker, which I assume is caused by a drop in pressure.

Should I be noticing any drop ?

Ta

Bad ascii follows :-}

M (meter)
| fire
| |
|------------cooker------------|
|
o (heads to the boiler directly above)

IMM replied to Colin Wilson on 22 May 2004

Take the fire and cooker supply directly back to the meter.

Alan replied to Owain on 10 May 2004

Hi everyone

I'm re-wiring and installing a new kitchen for my girlfriend and
looking for some advice!..apart from don't do it ;)

Currently there's a supply for the cooker 6mm^2 via the usual cooker
swith onto the CU. There's also 1 double socket from the ring.

The kitchen will have a new electric hob and oven (around 9kW total),
extractor hood, fitted dishwasher, fitted washer/dryer, fridge
freezer, cabinet lighting, plus the usual kettle (3kw?), toaster,
gizmos etc etc.

There's quite alot more load than there is currently and i'm not keen
to extend the ring further for the appliances etc.
I could add another dedicated line back to the CU for just the
kitchen..although this would be tricky.

I'm wondering if it would be ok for me to use a supply for an old
electric shower that is no longer used. I was thinking about dropping
this supply down from the attic into the kitchen to a separate CU?
I can then take a dedicated supply to the fridge/freezer and and then
use another circuit/s for the appliances and sockets (with a spur to
the extractor hood)???

If that sounds ok...whats the best way to physically extend the 10mm^2
from the attic to the kitchen (are there heavy duty junction boxes?)
What sort of arrangement as far as the new CU would you recommend?
MCB's etc?

The main CU is an old fuse type (*6) (with no RCD..i think..only had a
brief look) and will need upgrading so i want to keep that in mind
also.

Any advice appreciated as always...

Alan

Drew replied to Owain on 23 May 2004

Hi there
Does anybody know if there is a central database that would tell me where
the pipes/cables are buried in my garden, I want to drive fence posts into
the ground and dont want any nasty surprises.
Its a private house and the deeds don't show anything.

Thanks for any help

Drew

PS sorry if this post apears twice.

Arthur replied to Owain on 12 May 2004

Given that the ends of the 8' lengths will probably not match
the flooring joist spacing. can they be allowed to lock together
between the joists?..as in overhanging?

Arthur

Lobster replied to Owain on 22 May 2004

Hi

I have an RCD-protected cable reel
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?ts=66393&id=14792 which seems
to have stopped working - can someone tell me if it's likely to be faulty,
or whether it's something else)?

It now won't supply any power when plugged into a live socket; the little
warning window shows 'white', ie all OK ('red' = 'warning, do not use'). If
I press 'Reset' or 'Test' nothing happens at all. I've checked the 13A
cartridge fuse in the unit and it's fine. I've also since checked the cable
reel plugged in another house, and it doesn't work there either.

I don't know if this is relevant or not, but it seems to have happened today
while I was working on a lighting circuit; I'd isolated just that circuit
(yeah, I know) and when I shorted out L & N at some point, the RCD on the CU
tripped (not surprisingly). Shortly afterwards, when I'd finished work and
reset the CU RCD, I noticed that a light which I'd had plugged into my cable
reel, and which had been working earlier, was no longer working - that's
when I found the fault.

Can anyone suggest what's wrong with it? Or am I being really thick here?!!

Thanks
David

Stuart replied to Owain on 11 May 2004

I retrieved this fastening from an old piece of furniture . The "socket"
is about 11mm long and 10mm across with a coarse thread on the outside .
It is fastened with a screw (bolt/setscrew??) just over 60mm long and
about 5mm across. I would guess that a hole of the appropriate depth is
drilled and the "socket" screwed in at the top . There isn't anything to
show how it would be screwed in but I suppose a slot could be sawn across
the top and a screwdriver used .
Any idea what these are called and where I can buy them .?
Stuart

http://www.xpozure4u.plus.com/images/IMG_0631.JPG

Dave S replied to Stuart on 12 May 2004

I got some from B&Q. The top of the insert was shaped to take an Allen
key. I recall that it was easier to insert square to the surface if I
used a hexagonal bit in a screwdriver than using an l-shaped Allen
key.

Dave

Rod Carrol replied to Owain on 11 May 2004

Hello all,

Maybe you can clarify something for me :o)

About 5 years ago we converted the loft in our terraced 4 bedroom
house to make it a five bedroom, (the small box room at the top of the
stairs became a 'landing'/computer area and we had two new loft
bedrooms created for our elder sons). The loft conversion is a
'dormer' type.

Now - we'd like to expand the downstairs as we literally only have the
living room and kitchen down there, (together with a downstairs loo
and utility area housing the washing machine/tumble dryer).

Our plan is to make an extension back into the garden and move the
kitchen in there.

What is now the kitchen, (12' x 16') would be gutted and made into a
'family' room/dining room - giving us much needed extra space
downstairs.

If the budget can stretch, I'd like to also go for a porch at the
front - but thats a big 'if'.

Question: A friend says I may have difficulty in getting planning
permission for this because I already have a loft conversion and may
have used up my 'quota'.

Does this sound right?

Any advice appreciated.

Plod.

troubleinstore replied to Owain on 09 May 2004

We have a combi boiler and when you run the hot tap after a few minutes,
the hot water starts to flow quite well.
When you run the water for the bath, the taps has to be turned virtually
off to get really hot water out.
I do appreciate that the hot water is dependant upon the speed of which
the water passes through the boiler.
Here's the bit I am curious about. From the boiler carrying the hot
water is a 15mm copper pipe. This then feeds into the original 22mm
copper pipe to the bath which is approximately 8 feet away. Isa it
because of the 22mm pipe and the 3/4" tap that the tap has to be
virtually off before water gets really hot.
Comments most welcome.

Ed Sirett replied to troubleinstore on 09 May 2004

The same flow from a bath tap on a basin tap will look
pathetic from the bath tap. Especially if the tap is of a traditional
style with a bell mouth spout.

Some boilers allow you set throttle the HW flow for the whole
installation, this feature may well be useful to you.

troubleinstore replied to Ed Sirett on 09 May 2004

I thank the person who informed me that I had ommitted the bioler
information.
It is a Alpha 'OCEAN' 240XP.
I have had a look where the cold water supply goes into the boiler and
there is what appears to be a screw head on the mains water inlet valve.
Is this the thing I have to turn to regulate the flow into the boiler.
There are no other valves on the cold water inlet pipe.
I can't find anything in the installation and servicing instruction
booklet that refers to HW flow.
Yep, the bath taps are of the traditional style.

T i m replied to troubleinstore on 10 May 2004

I believe the 'flow' is generally set by biggest restriction in the
system. In you case this could be the 15mm pipe or more likely the
water heater itself. Once the water hits the 22mm it simply slows down
because of the increased volume of the pipe (but the same l/min).

My instant water heater is fed with (unrestricted) 15mm mains water
but also uses (mostly) 22mm to the bath as I was due to have a
cylinder there at one point. The only 'issue' for me is how much water
you have to run (waste?) before you get the hot through.

We get 'enough' rate to fill a bath with 'bearably' hot water but
wouldn't be able to run the sink or basin taps at the same time (2 of
3 of us (electric) shower anyway) ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

Graeme Proctor replied to Owain on 11 May 2004

My Potterton Profile 80 Boiler, will not start, the system is live,
the fan Kicks in and out, along burst at first, then a 5 second gap
follwed a a 2 second burst on the fan. But throughout it simply wont
fire up. I have tried using the reset button on the bottom og the
boiler but still nothing.

Does anybody have any ideas??

Jerry Built replied to Owain on 11 May 2004

It's not *that* bad once everything's down.

A pickaxe is a useful tool for pulling down a ceiling (careful
of wires!). If you are lucky enough to be able to have access
from above push the laths off with a baulk of timber. Pull out
any nails that don't come out with the lath.

Rake out the plaster at the top of the walls so that you can
slide plasterboard in over the plaster on the wall, it will be
much less likely to show cracks at the join then.

If you have to work in the room, an air helmet is *very* good.
You could D-I-Y one if you can find a vacuum cleaner which
can blow.

J.B.

Popeye replied to Owain on 24 May 2004

Simple one I hope.

Need to reroute a radiator pipe, going to use compression fitting as the
pipes will be boxed in, the question is how tight do I do the compression
joint, every where I look says don't do it too tight , but no hint about
what is tight enough?

Any suggestions

Thanks

David replied to Popeye on 25 May 2004

That's a bit of a wild statement that I don't think is true, there is no
reason for expansion and contraction to affect the performance of a
properly assembled compression joint

Popeye replied to Popeye on 25 May 2004

Thanks for the tips, one further questions, I'm sure your right that
compression joints loosen under the constant temperature change which makes
sense, then why are all valves either compression (or push fit), and none
soldered, don't these work loose as well ?

"BigWallop" <spamguard@_spam_guard.com> wrote in message
news:Uoosc.1299$_75.11200719@news-text.cableinet.net...

Andy Hall replied to Popeye on 25 May 2004

Drain cocks have a rubber washer and the decent ones also an O-ring on
the spindle to stop water leaking along it. You can unscrew the
top part before soldering.

The gate valves with the red wheel handles don't have a seal, AFAIK,
perhaps one one the spindle. In any case they are crap. Lever
ball valves are a much better choice and these are compression.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

nightjar replied to Popeye on 24 May 2004

It is usually specified as hand tight plus half a turn with a spanner.
However, I've always wondered how that works with different people having
different hand strengths. Personally, I would trust a solder joint more.
Just don't box it in until you are sure it won't leak.

Colin Bignell

David replied to Owain on 13 May 2004

We have a couple of large water marks on the kithcen ceiling as a result of
some poor sealing between the bath waste pipe and the outside downpipe. The
damage occured soon after we moved into the house and just after having the
ceiling skimmed (to cover up the mess from removing al the lovely
polystyrene tiles that were removed)

While this was actually a few years ago we've only just got around to
painting the kitchen ceiling.

The ceiling has now had a couple of coats of emulsion but there are still a
couple of areas where the water marks shine through.

Does anyone have any recommendations for dealing with this and getting the
emulsion to effectively cover the damaged area?

regards

David

Pet replied to Owain on 12 May 2004

Inductance Hobs - Lots of money, but has anyone got/used one?

Having an inquisitive 2yr old, we're looking to get one when the kitchen
is put back together. I still can't quite understand how they work though.

Does the pan/saucepan in effect just become the heating element with
current causing heat as it passes through it, or is there some magical
electrickery with magnetic inductance and stuff?

Or is it all done with mirrors?

Cheers
Pete

Martin Pentreath replied to Owain on 16 May 2004

At some point in the past someone has overenthusiatically sanded the
window frames of my house, and managed to put small scratches around
the edges of nearly all the windows. I'd like to polish the scratches
out, and I've done some research through the archives to discover that
jewellers' rouge is the stuff to get.

But I've also found this available from Screwfix
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?ts=21851&id=30347
What do the panel think? Anyone tried it? Seems to come with quite a
small amount of 'polishing powder' and they don't sell the powder by
itself.

Or would this stuff be any good?
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?ts=22270&id=31076

John Rumm replied to Martin Pentreath on 17 May 2004

I will ask - I have a feeling that he just uses a (hard) rubber wheel on
its own. Having said that, most of the glass he is polishing is very
soft (i.e. 24% lead crystal).

Pete C replied to Martin Pentreath on 21 May 2004

Hi,

Maybe filling the scratches with superglue, clear epoxy or windscreen
repair and polishing that out would be easier.

cheers,
Pete.

zak mondo replied to Owain on 24 May 2004

Hi, I've bought a 500 year old house in croatia that needs 2 new
floors. The interior measures 6m x 6m. The original joists are really
small and rotten. What size of joists would I need to have to span the
room without support posts ? I don't think I will be able to get
I-beams but could get timber in the following dimensions: 100mm x
200mm or 140mm x 200mm. Would this be sufficient ? Cheers.

Lee Young replied to Owain on 18 May 2004

I have recently had a new bathroom installed, but the plumber did not
install supplementary bonding. I have decided to do it myself, but am
unsure as to where to place the certain earthing connections. The plumber
has used between the water supply pipes and taps, a plastic connector.
Should I connect the supplementary bonding above, below, or in both places ?

Gary Cavie replied to Owain on 19 May 2004

Hi,

Does anybody have any recommendations for obtaining a spare fan oven
element for a Cookers model 02601201? I've tried EzeeFix, who have never
heard of the make, and tried CareMark, who are listed in the destruction
manual as spares suppliers. However, although they appear to have taken
my money 3 weeks ago, and have said several times that the part has been
despatched, have now 'fessed up that they don't have any in stock, and
are unlikely to have any until the end of the month at the earliest :-(

Come to that, has anybody heard of the Cookers make before? Are they a
rebadged version of somebody else's design?

TIA

Gary

Jerry Built replied to Owain on 18 May 2004

What's the cost difference to a DIY-er of buying prepared
lime putty or using hydrated lime to make?

J.B.

lloer replied to Owain on 22 May 2004

Does anyone know if its possible to get a longer cable to run from the wall
box to the digibox from anyone other than the cable TV company?

If so, what sort of cable is it and what connectors would I need?

Its NTL and a Pace digibox, btw.

TIA

Emma

David Hearn replied to lloer on 22 May 2004

If he's after an extension from the wallbox in the house to the digibox,
then that's easy to do and NTL probably won't care. If it is the cable from
the external box NTL provide then that may be a different matter as they put
an NTL seal on that box.

2x 'F' plugs and a suitable length of appropriate cable is all you need.

David

Terry D replied to Owain on 24 May 2004

I've noticed that a lot of new houses have the old style outside soil drain
stacks, usually in black. They look horrible. Has anyone an explanation
for this? I thought that inside soil drains were adopted 30-35 years ago.

Terry D.

Dave Liquorice replied to Terry D on 24 May 2004

Right that confirms it. The Atlantic Conveyour will switch off in the
next 20 years, meaning that the UK will get the winters it should for
it's latitude...

Hugo Nebula replied to Terry D on 25 May 2004

On Mon, 24 May 2004 13:26:27 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named
External: Pros- can be accessed easily; any leaks are immediately
evident. Cons - aesthetics.

Internal: Pros- unobtrusive. Cons- any leaks, or access for
rodding may require removal of the plasterboard; noise.

Terry D replied to Terry D on 24 May 2004

As I should have realised, it's just an easy way to save a few quid on the
build costs.

Several months ago, I visited a show house which had an exterior soil stack.
Strangly, when questioned, the sales representative, although very friendly,
had absolutely no idea as to the reason for this. I'm still looking for an
answer, apart from cost.

Terry D.

Abdullah Eyles replied to Owain on 11 May 2004

I have obtained some single-panel radiators which I intend to use for
solar water heating as mentioned regularly in this group.

They have a wavy fin pattern on one side, presumably to increase the
surface area. (diagram)

0===========================0
\_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/

Would it be correct to state that the finned side should be painted
(matt) black and face the sun?

Also should the other side be left white (before being insulated with
rockwool etc.)

TIA for any help...

BigWallop replied to Abdullah Eyles on 12 May 2004

In Britain, on a whole, it is usually only possible to increase the temperature of
slow flowing water by just a couple of degrees, so thermal stores from solar power are
still never efficient enough to be of any real use here. The use of solar power
driven electrical devices is becoming more efficient than trying to capture the IR
heat source to heat plain water with out any additives which help the water to
transfer the temperature rise to storage unit. So you could buy loads of 12 volt cup
heaters and wire them together inside a well insulated water storage tank and then use
a car battery and solar charger to keep them running. :-))

Ian Stirling replied to Abdullah Eyles on 13 May 2004

Pumped.
More control, less uncertainty.

Nat replied to Owain on 16 May 2004

I posted some while ago to ask advice on behalf of my relative who'd got the
leccy board asking him to accept a pole in his garden. (thread was called
"undergrounding electricity supply")

After some phoning and a lot of to and froing, I had a long conversation
with the wayleave man, and asked him "what will happen to my relative's
supply if he refuses to have this new pole?" Nothing, said the man. So I
asked a few more searching questions, (!) and he finally let slip that a
bloke 4 doors up had withdrawn his permission for the pole now in his garden
to stay there, and therefore an alternative site was needed. All the chat
about undergrounding the supply was as far as I can see, a red herring.
Bloke A says take the pole away, they try to get bloke B to accept it. We
said no, politely. The moral is ask every question you can think of, theyre
unlikely to be offering something for nothing.
Thank you for all your valuable advice.
Nat.

Ian Waddell replied to Graham Wilson on 23 May 2004

Have you tried "Barkeeper's friend" available in most DIY stores &
supermarkets. I am told it is almost magical and cleans almost anything
(read the label though).

If you're in a hardwater area, use Lime Lite on it to remove any limescale
deposits.

HTH

Ian

"Graham Wilson" <graham@dircon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ucq1b09migfj8fe7q4rc2vksmrkd5vabqv@4ax.com...

BigWallop replied to Graham Wilson on 23 May 2004

Dry the bath with a towel and get a dry cloth with toothpaste on it and rub the
marks with it. Toothpaste is a very mild abrasive and it works wonders on
enamel and glass surfaces. I think it also contains a small amount of a bleach
type substance which helps to remove stubborn stains.

Graham Wilson replied to BigWallop on 24 May 2004

Tried it. Made no difference. Bath smells minty though.

Graham

Archived message: Clean enamel bath (UK DIY House Renovation)