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Whats up with the spotty features? |
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| message from troyan0326 on 15 Jul 2004 |
Ok, been doing graphics and all forms of multimedia since 1991. Been using
Adobe products across the board including Golive until recently as I've been
learning Dreamweaver and Flash as Dreamweaver has some sort of dominant
reputation. In one days time I've had to access the Macromedia forums several
times for basic functions that are either missing or simply don't work within
Dreamweaver. If anyone has ever used golive's Grid function that writes a grid
into the page that all elements "stick" to (a far better and faster solution
than the tedious Dreamweaver tables assembly) you would see that Golive clearly
has advantages over Dreamweaver. I've never had a feature blatantly not work in
Golive like I've seen in Dreamweaver. Resizing cells in the "Show Pop Up Menu"
behavior simply doesn't work on the Mac. Had to hunt down the code and change
it manually. And why is there the abilitiy to open URL's in a new window from a
basic rollover or link, but this is not an option from the Pop-up Menus
windows. And assembling images in cells of a table, the cell sizes were one
number in the inspector, and an entirely different number in the source code,
causing bizarre gaps between images randomly and several hours delay. The
manuals suck so hard they blow! Not saying Golive is the bomb as I've had
several issues with that, but nothing that stopped production like this.
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| darrel replied to troyan0326 on 15 Jul 2004 |
For you, the visual designer, perhaps, but a 'sticky grid layout' is
completely the wrong way to build a web site.
You are frustrated because DW doesn't allow you to make web pages in the
same metaphor as a print layout application like Indesign or QuarkXPress.
This is a good thing. The web is not print.
Unfortunately, your frustrations are due to a lack of understanding of the
underlying code. There's simply no way to effectively build good solid,
streamlined, accessible, usable web sites without understanding a bit about
HTML/CSS/Javascript, etc.
Consider DW a 'helper' application. It will help you create the HTML that is
used to create the web site. The more you understand HTML, the more DW can
help.
You probably shouldn't use DW's pop-up menus t begin with. They're not that
great.
That shouldn't be. Are you sure you weren't setting sizes as both attributes
in the HTML and as settings in the CSS? CSS will override the attributes.
Well, again, it seems like a lack of HTML knowlege that is the real hurdle.
It'll come. Give it some time.
-Darrel
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| John Waller replied to troyan0326 on 16 Jul 2004 |
Welcome to the web.
Your frustrations are well heard as those of a graphic/multimedia designer
trying to translate your skills to the web.
Golive lets you do this quickly and easily and you almost feel that you are
using a DTP package as it permits you to design and place your elements on
your page wherever you please to pixel-perfect precision (as viewed on your
screen).
However the web is not a DTP environment (and certainly is not pixel
perfect) so Golive's approach can give you a very misleading feeling of
security and productivity. If you take a look at the code it is generating
you may be horrified as a web developer.
Dreamweaver tries hard to marry the worlds of DTP visual design and clean,
well-structured web code in an uneasy truce. But it does not ignore the
limitations of the web and what you can and can't do with HTML code,
especially with regard to page layout. If you're a visual designer, this can
lead you to scream and shout and blame DW.
Yes, Dreamweaver occasionally seems to behave in apparently inexplicable
ways to the uninitiated. But, once you understand a little of the underlying
code, the unique aspects of web design (compared to DTP design) and how, for
example, HTML tables are supposed to work, you then realise that DW is
actually trying to do the right thing and help you produce great web designs
with clean, efficient code which works predictably in most browsers.
That's why it has such a great reputation among hard-to-please developers
and many visual artists too.
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| Alan replied to troyan0326 on 15 Jul 2004 |
If anyone has ever used golive's Grid function that writes a grid
if you must use an aid like that- suggest you turn the Grid on, but stay Out
of "Layout Mode"
dw menu-->View-->Grid
Show Grid
Snap to Grid
Grid Settings
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| seb replied to troyan0326 on 15 Jul 2004 |
Golive is for people who don't know html nor CSS.
Dreamweaver is for people who know html and CSS.
The "grid" feature in Golive is great for people who don't know about
html, AND it creates outdated, heavy, inelegant html that is virtually
impossible to decipher and edit in code view.
Actually, there is a similar option in Dreamweaver, called "layout
view", but nobody who knows better uses it, because it creates the same
kind of problematic code.
Dreamweaver sometimes does not let you resize a cell, because it would
tend to create such problematic code (if you know enough about html, in
most cases, the need for resizing a cell is trivial, cells should resize
themselves in a good layout, or their size should be set via CSS, not in
the cell tag). Instead, Dreamweaver pushes you into learning enough
about html and CSS positioning so that you can acheive the same results
but with clean, spare, up-to-date coding practices.
Hence, the reputation of Dreamweaver as being superior to Golive, *from
the point of view of professional web designers and web developpers*.
troyan0326 wrote:
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