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Next Step in learning CSS |
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| message from Mark on 23 Jul 2004 |
Hi,
just finishing the excellent book "Foundation for Dreamweaver MX 2004" by
Grannell/Powers/McLachlan.
The book covers some good introductory work on CSS & this has been my first
exposure to CSS and I want to learn more!
I want to build lean, accessible, standards compliant pages using CSS in the
'right' way.
Can anyone point me in the right direction - what should be my next
reference book / tutorial ?
Thanks,
Mark
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| Mark replied to Mark on 24 Jul 2004 |
Thanks for all the comments - I've just got hold of PVIIs Foundations
e-book - looks like that's going to keep me busy for a while!
Thanks,
Mark
"Mark" <pangdeneNoSpam@gmailNoSpam.com> wrote in message
news:cdr47p$8uv$1@forums.macromedia.com...
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| anon replied to Mark on 24 Jul 2004 |
Your next step is getting the real truth on CSS and it's negatives
I did a Google Search on and this is what I got
http://www.andybudd.com/archives/2004/05/an_objective_look_at_table_based_vs
_css_based_design/
However, there are so many bugs, even the "experts" find themselves spending
an inordinate amount of time bug fixing. For a novice this must be extremely
frustrating. Not knowing if the problem is down to your misunderstanding of
CSS or some obscure browser bug. Is it any wonder why the same questions
come up time and again on list like CSS-Discuss?
When the browser manufacturers finally get their act together, developing
sites using CSS will get a lot easier. Still, I think most people would
agree that CSS development has a much higher barrier to entry than table
based design. In an odd way, I think this is one reason why CSS based design
is becoming so "popular" amongst web professionals. It allows them to
differentiate themselves from the amateur "FrontPage Cowboys" and take back
the web for themselves. Perhaps this is why many people see web standards as
"Ivory Tower" and why many web standards advocates come across as having a
sense of superiority and a zealous attitude towards web design.
http://www.apcmag.com/apc/v3.nsf/0/a569c81864dc4f1bca256e5f001a59c5
The World Wide Web is not enough
Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) are a classic example of the madness. Reared in
a cubicle somewhere, they're pitched as the pinnacle of document styling.
CSS are public, free and future-proof. Sounds great until you realise that:
a) you need a degree to understand them; b) Microsoft doesn't care about
them; and c) they suck. What's more, CSS have been promoted as "the future"
since the mid-90s, and by now the only thing keeping them alive is a steady
stream of guilt and the occasional Movable Type installation.
http://www.decloak.com/Dev/CSSTables/CSS_Tables_01.aspx
"The future of the web is FULL CSS so you should start learning it now."
What happens if Microsoft introduces a few new features to IE 7 that Mozilla
doesn't have OR won't support OR that W3C won't call a standard?
Microsoft did that before and they will specifically go out of their way to
do that again and again to make sure their browser is NOT 100%
standard-give-away-my-secret-sauce to the open source world.
These newsgroups are just like the stock market chat rooms...pump up a
stock, or in this case a CSS book or technology that somehow benefits the
author....
"Mark" <pangdeneNoSpam@gmailNoSpam.com> wrote in message
news:cdr47p$8uv$1@forums.macromedia.com...
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| Michael Fesser replied to anon on 24 Jul 2004 |
.oO(anon)
If you're not able to use CSS properly then learn it or stay with other
more familiar techniques, but don't blame CSS for other people's faults.
Nothing really useful, only trolling. Anyway ...
It's not bug fixing, it's IE fixing.
Not the worst IMHO. Let the advanced techniques to the people who know
how to handle them _properly_.
Are you able to build you own car or house? Surely not, but everyone
capable of turning on a computer without having to look it up in a
manual seems to think that he's able to install an operating system or
to build a website. It's no real surprise that they get a bloody nose.
It doesn't only _sound_ great, it actually _is_.
Not true. CSS is not that complicated. On the other hand you have to
_always_ learn how to use a certain technique or language. Why should it
be different with CSS? Learn it or leave it. Period.
The only point I agree with, even if I would replace 'them' with
'standards'.
I'm looking forward to a well-founded explanation (but I don't really
expect getting one).
Who cares about proprietary crap? Who cares about colored scrollbars?
Who cares about security holes in IE? Who cares about e-mail worms? ...
I don't.
They do that all the time. No real surprise and nothing to worry about.
You're free to leave, no one holds you back.
Micha
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| Murray *TMM* replied to anon on 24 Jul 2004 |
And, you have to learn who to listen to, as well.
CSS is beautiful to use when you understand what you can and cannot do with
it.
Those who slam it don't understand that....
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| joey replied to Murray *TMM* on 24 Jul 2004 |
After reading those articles it seems they gave it good try and they made
actual working websites as well. And these people really do understand CSS
and can implement it just as good as the experts.
But it's when these people compared the two methods, they realized those
advocating a complete CSS redesign were only selling their books or their
products or searching for the Fountain of Youth.
It very much seems that Eric Meyer, Project 7, AListApart.com, Zeldmen, etc.
are saturating this newsgroup, the web, and the public to make a profit at
the expense of commonsense. They remind me of the intellectuals who thought
of some ideal government like Communism, Marxism, etc.
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| David B replied to joey on 24 Jul 2004 |
If what you say is true, I'd suggest you contact Homeland Security,
which is pretty much a subsidiary of Microsoft. That'll teach'em!
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| Robert Barnett replied to David B on 25 Jul 2004 |
What kind of bull plop is this? If you as a designer aren't bright enough to
decide if an ALL CSS design, a no CSS design or something in-between is
right for your site then you have no business designing web pages. None of
the people or the companies you mentioned are holding a gun to your head to
force you to use CSS.
Myself, I am not a fan of layers, that could change, but right now I like
tables. I am also finding CSS to be very useful but I am not doing full CSS
sites as of this moment and probably won't until Microsoft gets their
browser act together...which could be a long time. In the mean time I am
bright enough to decide that a site that uses some CSS as well as other
design techniques is right for me.
And, don't you ever say anything bad about Project VII. Don't make me come
looking for you. ;) They are gods on this planet!
Robert
"David B" <david_blomstromDELETETHIS@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cduvbl$rth$1@forums.macromedia.com...
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| Murray *TMM* replied to joey on 24 Jul 2004 |
Who here is advocating that? Nobody.
This is completely nonsense.
Please show me some sites you have built.
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| gareth replied to Mark on 23 Jul 2004 |
Eric Meyers "Eric Meyer on CSS" is well worth a read.
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